BEWARE: This is a long one...
It seems that I've been dealing with the topic of finances a lot lately. Several of my friends have gone through a Crown class (I couldn't- I was out of town too much for work), I wrote some small group material for Discovery on money and stewardship, and now Kings Avenue is doing a study in all of their Sunday School classes on giving. They also have another Crown class coming up, and I hope to be able to attend it.
Here's what's bugging me: In my research and from what I've heard from the pulpit over several years in different churches, I've heard variations of the following over and over:
"Jesus spoke more about money than He did any other topic", or "Jesus spoke more about money than about heaven".
Here's my problem: No.
No, I don't believe He did. Now, I'll admit that I haven't researched all of the supposed 2,350 verses in the Bible that deal with money and possessions, and I haven't looked at every one of these verses that Jesus spoke, but from the research I have done, I'm not buying it.
Let me give you an example. This is one of the 2,350 verses on money:
"If therefore you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has
something against you, leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way; first be reconciled to your
brother, and then come and present your offering." Matthew 5:23,24
Is Jesus speaking about money here? He is referencing money, but is He talking about it? I don't think so. I think He was talking about forgiveness, reconciliation, and a clean heart. Or look at Matthew 25:14-28, the parable of the talents. Read it and ask yourself, "What is Jesus talking about?". Is money what comes to mind? It doesn't to me. I think of faithfullness, of trusting my master, of needing to be a good steward of everything, not just money.
Here's my point: When we say that Jesus spoke about money more than any other topic, that makes it sound like His focus was on money, and I don't believe it was. I believe that Jesus knows how important money is to us, how it can trap us, and how using and struggling with it is common to most, if not all people, and he used that to teach us the larger, more important lessons about faith, trust, love, Heaven, etc. More often than not, I believe those are the things He was talking about.
As I said, I hope to attend a Crown class soon. I think they have a great, biblically-based program and I am sure I will learn a lot from it. I also believe that the Bible, and in this case Jesus specifically, have a lot to say about money. I just think that we need to make sure when we read scripture we understand what Jesus is really talking about.
Tuesday, April 15, 2008
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11 comments:
Hate to disagree with you...ok that's a lie.
In that passage I believe he is addressing the subject of giving. He points out that there is more to giving than just putting money at the foot of the alter. Just like there is more to worship in singing than just singing a song.
Jesus made it a point to say "leave your offering there before the altar, and go your way"...why? If he was talking about a different subject he would not make it a point to say it.
I have heard countless worship leaders talk about how to sing a song by getting your heart and head right....but they are still talking about singing. They are addressing the deeper meaning of worship...your heart. It is all a part of that form of worship.
Our position in the Lord is also key in our giving. If we have unaddressed sins at the time of giving, he soils the event and we need to address....but still leave our offering before we go.
James
Up kinda late, birdman. 11:17pm!? You are too old for these late blogging shenanigans! LOL!
As for the giving stuff...it is a touchy subject, all I know is that I can't afford not to give.
Just a little question...would you make the same point is someone mentioned that Jesus talked about farming more than heaven or hell?
I mean, didn't Jesus talk about money AND heaven when he said store up treasures in heaven? And didn't he talk about farming AND heaven when he talked about the wheat and the tares?
I know what you're saying but you might be thinking it too much....I'd go back to what are you doing with the information?
First of all, I finally know what it takes to get people to post responses!
To clarify, I understand the importance and value of giving, and I understand that a person's spiritual condition if often, if not always, reflected in their giving.
That being said...
James- Matthew 5:23 & 24 stars off with "Therefore..." or "If therefore...". That's an indication to read what came before it. The paragraph before deals with anger between brothers ans how Christ viewed it. That is dealt with again in the passage I mentioned and in the paragraph after it. Three paragraphs with a common theme- and the theme is not money. Is money dealt with? Absolutely. Can you teach about money from it? Sure. But is that what Jesus was talking about? Was that the main point? I just don't think so. I miss you, dude.
Aron, you are right on both counts. I am too old to be up this late, and I too cannot afford not to give.
Jas, I understand what you are saying, but when you use an analogy, it is usually to help make a point. The analogy doesn't then become the point. So I would say no, He wasn't talking about farming. He was talking about Heaven, and used farming in the parable to make His point. Let me put it this way- Did Jesus use this parable to teach the people a lesson on farming or a lesson on Heaven? I think it was a lesson on Heaven. To me, that means Heaven was what he was talking about. Other applications may exist, however.
I agree that what we do with the information is key. Am I making too much of this? I don't know. I want to be someone who "...correctly handles the Word of Truth." (2 Timothy 2:15). Is this something for people to divide over? No way. But in this forum, and in this way, I think it's ok to discuss.
This has been fun!
So if I follow your example...the following "analogy" given by Christ means that I should ignore the subject of looking at women cause he used it as an "analogy"?
Or are we just playing with semantics now?
I still feel that it could be said of all the "analogies" Jesus could have used to bring across his point of anger...money giving at the altar is a strange one indeed. So if Christ took the time to give an a mandate on how to give your offering...I feel that a pastor is right in saying it was a subject.
Miss you as well,
James
P.S. Looking forward to see if you change your mind on the subject after crown.
One other thought. Yes Jesus used "analogies" but in this series of versus they are not "analogies" but "applications".
I am done now. Do not have a lot of outlets up here in this department. No one wants to spar.
James
I believe that the bible speaks to us differently at different times. I think you can read a passage one day and hear one thing and read it a year later and the holy spirit will convict you of something different. That's why the word is alive.
Second there are diffent kinds of offerings. Our time, our talents, our money, our devotion etc... in this instance it was a pet. I think it falls back to obedience to God and doing what He tells us to do.
My 947 words worth. Why couldn’t I do those 500 word essays in high school?
I don't think it matters whether Jesus spoke more about one subject than another. What is important is that He spoke.
In the Matthew 5:23-24 Jesus uses the example of giving, an act of worship, to emphasis that our attitude an intent is as important, if more so, as the physical act of giving. Psalm 51:15-17O says Lord, open my lips, That my mouth may declare Your praise. For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it; You are not pleased with burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
The parable of the talents is to teach us that regardless of the resources that are given to us, time, talent and treasure, we are to use them wisely and consistent with the way the master expects. We will be judge according to what we did with what we were give.
2350,1000, or 10 verses on money is immaterial. The fact is the master has given us sufficient information, along with the Holy Spirit, to know how to manage the resources He has given to each of us to fulfill His purpose.
Take care…Fred
Sorry there were a couple of typos in the last post. I even used spell check..those computers, you just can't trust them
Let me try that again without typos. Look at it this way, it helps your response count.
My 947 words worth. Why couldn’t I do those 500 word essays in high school?
I don't think it matters whether Jesus spoke more about one subject than another. What is important is that He spoke.
In the Matthew 5:23-24 Jesus uses the example of giving, an act of worship, to emphasize that our attitude and intent is as important, if not more so, as the physical act of giving. Psalm 51:15-17O says Lord, open my lips, That my mouth may declare Your praise. For You do not delight in sacrifice, otherwise I would give it; You are not pleased with burnt offering. The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart, O God, You will not despise.
The parable of the talents is to teach us that regardless of the resources that are given to us, time, talent and treasure, we are to use them wisely and consistent with the way the master expects. We will be judge according to what we did with what we were give.
2350,1000, or 10 verses on money is immaterial. The fact is the master has given us sufficient information, along with the Holy Spirit, to know how to manage the resources He has given to each of us to fulfill His purpose.
Take care…Fred
I mostly agree. My point was that people make certain claims (2,350 verses for instance) and then try to bulild a point where it either doesn't exist, or you have to stretch to get there. That's what I have been questioning. As you said, 2,350 or 1,000 or 10 isn't the point. But when people make a claim, I think it's fair to examine it and see if it holds up. My opinion is that it doesn't.
God has certainly given us all the information we need to correctly handle the resources he has given us. One of those resources is money, and it's a very important one. Another one of those resources is His Word, and I think it needs to be correctly handled.
This has been a lot of fun, and I certainly welcome any more comments.
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